Curse

Kaleban · Apr 19, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Yeah, food is in our country cheap. But on the other hand, average income per family is 600 euro. Now look at, for example, France, where income is much, much higher.

Also, for you a hamburger in McDonalds is $5. For us it's almost same in zloty, but it's definitely harder for us to pay it. Why? We make much, much less money.

Although some people, like my uncle, use that situation quite well - he's a captain on two ships (forgot names), but his celery is in $'s. Thanks to that, his family is able to have 1 house at the countryside (pretty nice one) and one in the middle of Tricity Gdynia-Gdansk-Sopot, where prices are extremely high, higher than in Warsaw. Because he's getting polish amount of money, but those 2,4 times more thanks to dolar -> zloty change.

I know WoW charges by the month. And I said ,,under 40''. I checked on my calculator and it was something around 36 zloty, but I wasn't sure how much is $ worth now. Still, 36 is those few zloty above my allowance. Not that I would want to play wow, it's boring, but still...

600 Euro is about USD$940, but you did not say the timetable, I'll assume twice a month, since that's how many are paid in the US. Many, MANY Americans (probably more than the population of Poland altogether) make much less than that, and live in crappy tenement rentals and can barely make ends meet.

A friend of mine who is a civil engineering professor at the university there in Bialystok makes comparably little compared to a US posting, but is able to afford a nice ranch style home in the countryside, as well as an apartment in the town, is married and has a second kid on the way.

A person in a similar situation in the US would have to make a LOT more money or live in the afore mentioned tenements, since the cost of living in the US is SO much higher than Poland. You have to factor that in before you QQ about game prices, which are a luxury item and generally not factored into COLA adjustments.

So in reality, the difficulty for you to pay for a McDonalds cheeseburger is the same, since you make less money but it costs less, it all evens out relatively. Its called economic smoothing.

36 zloty is USD$16.50, so you're even closer to paying what Americans pay. Realize that we could argue economics all day, and I would end up being right, and that the whole issue started with Boren's incorrect assumption of the pricing of EOTN and the continually flawed reasoning you guys are positing forth who seem to have no knowledge of international economics. No worries though, not expected on a game forum.

N1ghtstalker · Apr 19, 2008, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

I would get rid of the SS necro. Only enfeebling blood is nice in that bar.

²
the hexes are a boost but they're mainly not of great use

Abedeus · Apr 19, 2008, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

600 Euro is about USD$940, but you did not say the timetable, I'll assume twice a month, since that's how many are paid in the US. Many, MANY Americans (probably more than the population of Poland altogether) make much less than that, and live in crappy tenement rentals and can barely make ends meet.

No, you assumed incorrectly. We get our celery only once in a month. And I said ,,average'' income. This means that one person gets $200 a month, and other person gets over $5000 a month (our useless politicians, for example).

Quote:

A friend of mine who is a civil engineering professor at the university there in Bialystok makes comparably little compared to a US posting, but is able to afford a nice ranch style home in the countryside, as well as an apartment in the town, is married and has a second kid on the way.

I've got same friend, he's one of the most important people in ,,Polski Tyton SA'' (Polish Tobacco), computer/marketing support. He is able to buy on his celery new PS3, ultra-high-end PC, a 44" plasma TV and a new car. But you know why? He knows some people, that know some people and they know some people too. Average Joe without powerful friends wouldn't even get as high as he did.

Quote:

A person in a similar situation in the US would have to make a LOT more money or live in the afore mentioned tenements, since the cost of living in the US is SO much higher than Poland. You have to factor that in before you QQ about game prices, which are a luxury item and generally not factored into COLA adjustments.

I disagree. At least for now, our hospitals are SUPER poor, a lot of them are getting closed (for example, I've got a state hospital in my city that is about to get closed because of high debs). So we MUST go to private doctors, or wait 2-3 hours in line because of a flu or a little (38'-38,5') fever. Oh, and visits are 100-150 zloty each. Even if, in my case, they are sometimes required to live. I don't think you have as bad as we had. Oh, and a lot of doctors and nurses are still on a strike because of low celeries. So you might get lucky like me, when you have to first wait a years to get to a private doctor, than wait another 4 months because of strikes.

Quote:

So in reality, the difficulty for you to pay for a McDonalds cheeseburger is the same, since you make less money but it costs less, it all evens out relatively. Its called economic smoothing.

So why some countries ARE poorer than other, if it should balance out? Have you been in Romania? Or some countries that suffered through wars recently (Albania for example)? Either they have almost nothing in stores or their prices are very high. I still remember $6 dollars for a coffee or $14 for two hot-dogs.

Quote:

36 zloty is USD$16.50, so you're even closer to paying what Americans pay. Realize that we could argue economics all day, and I would end up being right, and that the whole issue started with Boren's incorrect assumption of the pricing of EOTN and the continually flawed reasoning you guys are positing forth who seem to have no knowledge of international economics. No worries though, not expected on a game forum.

But you don't realize that it IS harder to pay those $15 for us than for Americans? At moment it's ~$10,858 (per year per capita) in Poland, we're 39th in the world scale. And America is 9th, with $45,594 per capita, per year. So it means Americans make 4 times more than we do. You can look at, for example, Bulgaria with a bit more than 5k or Romania with 7,3k. See for yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...%29_per_capita

Kaleban · Apr 19, 2008, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

No, you assumed incorrectly. We get our celery only once in a month. And I said ,,average'' income. This means that one person gets $200 a month, and other person gets over $5000 a month (our useless politicians, for example).

Poland also has better government subsidy programs for low income earners.

Quote:

I've got same friend, he's one of the most important people in ,,Polski Tyton SA'' (Polish Tobacco), computer/marketing support. He is able to buy on his celery new PS3, ultra-high-end PC, a 44" plasma TV and a new car. But you know why? He knows some people, that know some people and they know some people too. Average Joe without powerful friends wouldn't even get as high as he did.

That's the way it is all over the world...

Quote:

I disagree. At least for now, our hospitals are SUPER poor, a lot of them are getting closed (for example, I've got a state hospital in my city that is about to get closed because of high debs). So we MUST go to private doctors, or wait 2-3 hours in line because of a flu or a little (38'-38,5') fever. Oh, and visits are 100-150 zloty each. Even if, in my case, they are sometimes required to live. I don't think you have as bad as we had. Oh, and a lot of doctors and nurses are still on a strike because of low celeries. So you might get lucky like me, when you have to first wait a years to get to a private doctor, than wait another 4 months because of strikes.

Americans have the same problem WHEN they can afford to purchase health insurance, for those that can't, waiting in line for 3+ hours isn't even an option. And even with the absurd cost of healthcare, many co-pays are relatively higher than what you pay.

Quote:

So why some countries ARE poorer than other, if it should balance out? Have you been in Romania? Or some countries that suffered through wars recently (Albania for example)? Either they have almost nothing in stores or their prices are very high. I still remember $6 dollars for a coffee or $14 for two hot-dogs.

Obviously not every country is the same on the world economic scale. But realize that in the US, there are 350 million people, with 50 million having no healthcare, which is more than the entire population of Poland (~40 million). The poverty line in the US is about USD$10400 a year, with a conservative estimate of 12% of Americans living below that, compared to Poland's 17%. That's 42 million in America vs. 6.8 million in Poland.

Quote:

But you don't realize that it IS harder to pay those $15 for us than for Americans? At moment it's ~$10,858 (per year per capita) in Poland, we're 39th in the world scale. And America is 9th, with $45,594 per capita, per year. So it means Americans make 4 times more than we do. You can look at, for example, Bulgaria with a bit more than 5k or Romania with 7,3k. See for yourself:

Again, you're not taking into account the way statistics are averaged, with America having a huge concentration of wealth, yet despite trickle down theorists best ideas, the poor huddled masses don't see any of it. What that means is that if all wealth were distributed equally (i.e. perfect socialism) among every person, then yes, Americans would be making USD$45k a year. The flaw with that argument is that about 82% of the country's wealth is concentrated in the top 20% of the country's population, which means the VAST number of Americans are either below poverty, at poverty or lower middle class.

Lastly, America's cost of living is MUCH higher compared to Eastern European countries, which again eats into any imaginary margin we hold in terms of economics. You need to get the idea that every American rides around in limo converted humvees to Mann's Chinese Theatre for movie premieres while bathing in Cristal champagne out of your head, there's more people living in America today that call a cardboard box home and keep themselves warm with newspaper than the entire population of Poland.

angmar_nite · Apr 19, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

I know it's rude and mean to make fun of non english speakers and I probably shouldn't, but it's salary not celery. Unless you get paid in a certain amounts worth of celery...

Spindraft · May 15, 2008, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Americans have the same problem WHEN they can afford to purchase health insurance, for those that can't, waiting in line for 3+ hours isn't even an option. And even with the absurd cost of healthcare, many co-pays are relatively higher than what you pay.

This.

The type of health service described is what i can get if i can afford to part with 25%-30% of my salary every month for insurance.(for a lot of people who make less that percentage is much higher and they simply can not do it).

For those that can't afford the insurance, well soo sorry, you're not entitled to the right to sit in the waiting room for 5hours having a heart attack before a doctor see's you. You simply get sent home where you can wait to die.

I won't deny for a second that americans are afforded privledges that people in many countries simply don't have......but our health care system is utter BS tbqfh.

ALF71BE · May 18, 2008, 04:35 AM // 04:35

I'm going to put a different example, from me living in Mexico:

Lowest legal hour-pay in Mexico = $0.6 USD
The same but in USA = Somewhat like 6USD, right?

Cost of GW:EotN = $30USD.

Me? I have to buy from the online store because there aren't stores with it in stock (not even American chains like Wal-Mart (but anyways they don't specialize in videogames)). So we have to pay the same prices, however we earn 10 times less in average. As for regarding politics and social programs, in most countries you don't get monthly paid for being a social parasite like in the USA. And as far as I know, USA and other "developed" countries export their manufactured goods to sub-developed countries at high prices. I didn't knew Poland made good Ford cars. And we have to pay about the same for this car. Not only this but many, many stuff. Moar example?

Crap Mc'Donalds food in Mexico = $1.5 USD
I don't know how it is in the USA, but it isn't $15USD.

So if you've never lived in a sub-developed country, then shut up, Kaleban.

PS. Feel free to criticize any spelling error.
PS2. Wow, from where you get that sub-developed countries have smaller cars that save gasoline? From where you get gasoline prices are different? There are international standard prices for gasoline, these prices managed by a few organizations that set a price for each barrel. So yet again we got to pay the same that you pay for gasoline.
PS3. Yes I know I'm bumping an old issue but meh.
PS4. OMG you haxxor! You can buy stuff in USA and pay in 87 months! Pay this car when your kids become old and you become dirt! Wow we can't do that here in Mexico.

Back on topic, thanks for the builds Pyro, although I use Lightning Reflexes instead of NS and Throw Dirt instead of Hunter's Shot, while bringing the Sunspear Rebirth Signet for the occassional near wipe situations.

Abonai Laguna · May 18, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

As I didnt have EOTN earlier too, i used the SS on one of my ele heroes (A) didnt work bad thanks to the huge energy pool

N1ghtstalker · May 18, 2008, 01:23 PM // 13:23

i replace the SS with a song of restoration para
works great

Tyla · May 18, 2008, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

i replace the SS with a song of restoration para
works great

And then put Enfeebling Blood on someone for some anti-melee!

Spindraft · May 19, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

I'm going to put a different example, from me living in Mexico:

Lowest legal hour-pay in Mexico = $0.6 USD
The same but in USA = Somewhat like 6USD, right?

Cost of GW:EotN = $30USD.
--
And as far as I know, USA and other "developed" countries export their manufactured goods to sub-developed countries at high prices.
--
And we have to pay about the same for this car. Not only this but many, many stuff. Moar example?
--
Crap Mc'Donalds food in Mexico = $1.5 USD
I don't know how it is in the USA, but it isn't $15USD.
--
So if you've never lived in a sub-developed country, then shut up, Kaleban.

I think you've made a good point that a few people missed. Things like a video game, a car, and "expensive american exported good", are going to be roughly the same price regardless of who is purchasing it. An american company (or most any other for that matter) is going to sell their product for as much as they think they can get. Guild wars in mexico is still gonna cost rougly the same as in the us b/c that's the price anet knows they can get for it. If you can't afford it, well sorry but they don't care as long as someone else can.

While I do live in the us, I live in one of the top 5 poorest counties in the country. For my particular profession in my area you can expect to make roughly 30-40k usd annual salary, which is quite enough for an avg comfortable living given local expense levels. However, for the exact same work, if I lived in NYC I could easily earn anywhere from 80-100k annual. But things like rent & other basic living expenses would be far more expensive (an increase roughly on par with the earnings difference). Food for example, you say rougly a buck & 1/2 for lunch at mcdonalds. Other than ramen noodles i cannot buy lunch anywhere for less than $7..period. In NYC you're prob. looking at something more like $15ish.

However, on the other hand most commoditites like cars/video games/plasma tele....cost the same regardless. Given that, yes, these types of commodities are far more affordable for someone living in a highly developed area. Basic example: $2000usd plasma tv costs $2000 wether i live in my current spot or in NYC. So you could construe, that this TV is twice as expensive for me now than if i lived in NYC, based on percentage of income after basic living expenses.

That said, just because you live in a country less economically developed that the US doesn't mean you have a monopoly on udnerstanding of economics. I may not live in mexico (just right next to it

), but most of us don't live in lichtenstien either. So in regard to that statement you also can 'shut up'. Except for an extreme few people in the world, there's always going to be someone who makes 10-100s of times more money than we can even imagine.

Social parasites statement: Some people actually need the governement assistance available, and i'm sure most that do are thankful to have it. Yes there are also a lot of ppl who simply take advantage of the same services, and most americans i'm sure have much more disdain for them than you do (since it's our tax money they're mooching, not yours).

i haz a pickle · May 22, 2008, 02:14 AM // 02:14

this is, by far, the greatest thread hijack ever.

Lord Galdir · May 22, 2008, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Lol, I agree with the post above me.

But pyro wins the thread.